Rajasthan Issue

[Pankaj Kohli]

Hi friends

I do agree with ankur that hard work is only way to succeed.

Fortunately some times earlier I had chance to roam around in some gurjar populated areas of Rajasthan. Those people are really very poor but will match with all bihari and jaat counterparts in hardwork.Their basic needs of roti, kapda aur makaan are not being fulfilled. Education comes much later in their priority. Those who have never gone to school, they can work hard only on roads and fields as labourers.
Reservation helps those with filled stomach. We shouldnot expect these poor people to get educated and then avail benefit of reservation. It will help a portion of gurjars in rajasthan who are well to do.
If instead of ST status we would have demanded more schools, heavy financial aid and swarozgar yojnas in gurjar dominated area. It would have been a better and more successful agitation.

It is quite clear from Govt stand that we will not get reservation in Rajasthan at any cost and in other parts of country where we do have ST/OBC status we are not taking much benefits.

WHAT TO DO NEXT?
PLS COMMENT

Regards

[Ankur Bhati]

MR. RAJNISH

you have made the same mistake again....you didnt read my statement clearly....first of all you didnt answer my question about the biharis....are u afraid of answering that question, seems so.....and i didnt say all gurjars are lazy, i said MOST gurjars are lazy and thats a fact you know as well as I but you are too afraid of facing the truth....i love my biradri....its very good that gurjars have come forward but for the WRONG reasons....second of all u said india is a social country and america is a democracy....ARE U LIVING IN 1940?? INDIA IS A SOVEREIGN SECULAR SOCIALIST DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY.....ITS IN THE PREAMBLE OF OUR CONSTITUTION.....HAVE YOU NEVER STUDIED CIVICS MR.DOI.....


MR. PANKAJ KOHLI THANKS A LOT FOR PUTTING IT IN THE RIGHT WORDS!!!!!!

PLEASE READ MR PANKAJ'S STATEMENT MR. DOI....

[Rajnish Doi]

Dear Pankaj,

If you know how many of GURJARS are collectors, Police officers and other higher govt. officers, a very few and they are so much alone on their counterpart that they cant have any voice for community.

If our brothers get a chance to become higher authorities with strength, things will change.
If you have visited Rajasthan I have been living in Rajasthan from 28 years. Again I am explaining GURJAR stand to you and my other brothers outside Rajasthan that this downfall of GURJAR will take us much below were we are today.

You compare with Biharis! this is just your imagination. If Biharis are so much powerfull then why is the state suffering from all sorts of problems I dont agree that all biharis are in big position at govt.

GURJAR students whose family is poor which I believe many of them are there in Rajasthan (with facts) will have problem to dedicate his full time for study because he has to work for his family daily needs. This student will never able to fight any comptetion against general category students.

If you go back to history of MEENAs there ST seats were empty for many years but as and when their generation went on they become powerfull and today they are way ahead of many communities. Now at this point they do not need reservation but now ST seats are their property and they do not want to share with any one. They are kings (most of IAS, Police officers and MLAs) we can not stand against them and over on it my own bhiradhari brothers are not supporting us.

You think GURJARS are LAZY and they do not want to pursue for further studies, you think wrong!
Many of our brothers are in ARMY because of unemployment they have to go for ARMY as SEPOY just because they do not have family to back them for higher studies.

I personally against reservation, but GURJAR ST status is a good cause for my community and for other communities also. This way govt will relook at their policies and this 60 years list of ST/SC might change. I dont want to loose this Ray of Hope driven by Col. Bhainsala and my other brothers all over the WORLD.

My shahid brothers who sacrificed their lives for ST have shown to the community that GURJARS will not bent against anyone. No community in INDIA can do so, History is proof of it and no community can do, future will tell us. I will not let my brothers blood go waste by steping out of this agitation.

If we have more brothers in higher positions, will have more chances of getting Rojgar Yojna, schools and other facilities.

Dont loose hope that, we will not get ST status we are fighting and we will fight till the end. Come on GURJARS show to the world we will not tolerate this Racism in this so called democratic country.

regards,
Rajnish Doi.

[Rajnish Doi]

Dear Ankur,

I know theroitically we are democratic from past 60 years but democracy is not theory it is a practice which is not there in INDIA.
We do not have freedom to speak and raise our voice against unjustice it is not democracy. Poor persons are killed and supressed by rich community this is not democracy.
Thanks brother nice talking to you we are done.
regards,
Rajnish Doi.

[mazhar gujjar]

OO PYAREY PYAREY GUJJAROO,

KYUN JHAGADTEY HOO AAPIS MEIN.

MUJHEY YEY BATAO JOO DEBATE HUM AB KUR RAHEY HAIN KIA AB USS DEBATE KAA KOI TIME HAI.

KIA GUN SEY NIKLAA HOA BULLET AUR KAMAN SEY NIKLAA HOA TEER WAPIS AA SAKTAA HAI.

YEY DEBATE SIRF USSWAQT TUK HOONEE CHAHEAY THEE JUB YEY DEMAND NAA KEE JAATEE.

AB TU DEMAND HOO CHUKI.POOREE WORLD MEIN ISKAA CHURCHA HOO CHUKAA.KAI LOG MUR CHUKEY.

AB ISS DEMAND KEY SAHEE YAA GHALT KAA TU SAWAL HEE NAHIN
RAHAA.AB TU FULL TRY ISKOO KAMIAB KARNEY KEE HOONEE CHAHEAY.AB TU YEY ANNA KAA MASALA BUN CHUKAA HAI.

KISSEE BHEE GHAR ,PANCHAYAT YAA BIRADREE KEE MEETING MEIN SUB KEY IDEAS AIK JAISEY NAHIN HOOTEY.LEKIN JUB AIK DECISSION LEY LEA JAEY TU PHIR SUB KEE KOSHISH USKOO KAMIAB KARNEY KEE HOONEE CHAHEAY.

PUNKAJ BHAI AUR ANKUR BHAI AAP KEY IDEAS BOHAT ACHHEY HAIN.

LEKIN SIRF AMERICA AUR EUROPE JAISEY DESHOON MEIN.
HAMAREY DESHOON MEIN TU JOO LINE MEIN KHADA HOO JAEY AUR APNI BAAREE KAA INTEJAAR KARTA RAHEY USKEE BARREE HEE NAHIN AATEE.

MUJH SEY POOCHEIN TU MAIN BHEE POOREE WORLD MEIN KISSEE BHEE RESERVATION KEY KHILAF HOON.LEKIN YEY KHOOBSOORAT SOOCH SIRF GUJJAROON KEY LEAY HEE NAHIN SUB KEY LEAY HOONEE CHAHEAY.

JISS RAJASTHAAN MEIN GUJJARS NEIN YEY DEMAND KEE AUR USKEY BADLEY UNKOO MARA GAYA KIA WAHAN YEHEE RESERVATION AIK AUR TRIBE KOO HASIL NAHIN.KIA ISS DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY MEIN KISSEE NEIN BHEE YEY KAHAA KEY AGAR GUJJAROON KEE DEMAND GHAT HAI TU MEENAS KOO YEY RIGHT KYUN DIA GAYA AUR UNSEY YEY RIGHT WAPIS LYA JAEY.
LEKIN KOI NAHIN BOOLA.

BJP NEIN APNEY TWO GUJJAR MLAS KOO PARTY SEY NIKAAL DIA KEY WOO TRIBAL HATERED MEIN INVOLVE HAIN .DOOSREE TARAF MEENAS KOO SIRF NOTICE RELEASE KEAY GAEY.

AISA KYUN HAI.SIRF ISS LEAY KEY MEENAS FINANCIALY ,POLITICALY AUR BUREOCRACY MEIN BOHAT POWERFUL HAIN. KOI UNKOO NARAJ NAHIN KURNAA CHAHTAA.

DOSREE TARAF HUM JOO HUR TARAA UN SEY PEECHEY HAIN AB ISS BAAT PUR JHAGDA KUR KEY APNEY AAP KOO AUR KAMJOOR KUR RAHEY HAIN KEY YEY DEMAND HEE SAHEE NAHIN.

GUJJAROON NEY ISS AGITATION MEIN AIK HE POWER SHOW KARWAEY KEY WOO UNITED HAIN.AGAR MEENAS RAJASTHAN MEIN
POWERFULL HAIN TU GUJJAR POOREY INDIA MEIN POWERFULL HAIN.LEKIN HUM TU USS AIKTAA KEY BHEE DUSHMAN BANEY HOEY HAIN.

ANKUR BHAI AAP NEY YEY SHOOR MACHAA RAKHA HAI KEY RESERVATION SAHEE NAHIN.KIA GUJJAROON KOO KISEE NEIN ITNEE IMPORTANCE DEE HAI KEY HUM INN LAWS PUR COMMENTS KUR SAKEIN. GUJJAROON KOO TU SIRF YEY KAHAA JAA RAHA HAI KEY TUMHAREE DEMAND SAHEE NAHIN.

PANKAJ BHAI AGAR HAMAREY DESHOON MEIN HARDWORKING AUR STRUGGLE KAA BENEFIT MILTAA TU PHIR KYUN HAMAREY YOUNGSTER AMERICA AUR EUROPE JANEY KEY LEAY MARTEY HAIN.

KIA AIK JUDGE AUR AIK FARMER KEY BETEY KAA FUTURE AIK JAISA HAI.KUCH EXAMPLES JAROOR HAIN. MAGAR FLOOR MEIN SALT KEY EQUALLY.

AUR JOO HAIN UNKOO KITNEE STRUGGLE KARNEE PADEE YEY SUBHE JANTEY HAIN.

KIA RISHWAT AUR SAFARISH HAMAREY DESHOON KEE PROBLEM NAHIN.

PANKAJ BHAI AUR ANKUR BHAI MAIN BHEE AAPKEY KHAYALAAT SEY AGREE HOON MAGAR GROUND REALITY KUCH AUR HAI. JOO RAJASTHAN KAA RAJNESH DOI HUM SEY JIADA JAANTAA HAI.

AUR MAIN AAPSEY SIRF YEY BINTEE KARTA HOON KEY JUB AAP LOGOON KEE BIRADREE YAA ORGANIZATION KOI DECISSION LEY LEY TU PHIR AAP CHAHEY USS SEY AGREE HOON YAA NAA HOON USS DECISSION KEE SUCCESS KEY LEAY POORAA JOOR LAGA DEIN.

ANKUR BHAI AIK BAAT AAP BHEE MIND MEIN RAKHEIN KEY LEAD KARNEY WALA KOI FARMER YAA MILKMAN ,YAA KOI BUSINESS MAN NAHIN. AIK RETIRED COL HAI.JISKE EDUCATION ,EXPERIENCE MUJHSEY AUR AAP SEY BOHAT JIADA HAI.

JISS HALAT MEIN HUM HAIN ISS WAQT HAMEIN UNITY KEE JAROORAT HAI.IKHTELAFAT SEY HUM DISHEART AUR BIKHUR JAEIN GEY.

SIRF DEKHNAA YEY CHAHEAY KEY HUM KYUN KAMIAB NAA HOO SAKEY JOO GHALTIAN HUM SEY HOEIN UNKOO DOOR KARKEY HUMNEY ISS STRUGGLE KOO KAMIAB KARNA HAI.

MAIN YEY BHEE NAHIN KEHTAA KEY RAILWAY LINES UKHADOO SADKEIN TODO.AUR LAW APNEY HAATH MEIN LOO.

LEKIN YEY BHEE NAHIN KEHTA KEY LOGOON KOO DISHEART KAROO.KEY YEY DEMAND POOREE NAHIN HOO SAKTEE.

AAP KHUD HEE KEHTEY HAIN KEY STRUGGLE AUR HARDWORKING SEY SUB AIMS GAIN KEAY JAA SAKTEY HAIN .

TU PHIR GUJJAROON KEE ISS AGITATION KEY LEAY AAP KI YEY SOOCH KYUN BADAL JAATEE HAI.

MAZHAR GUJJAR

[AP Singh]

Rajnish said:

Dear Ankur,

I know theroitically we are democratic from past 60 years but democracy is not theory it is a practice which is not there in INDIA.
We do not have freedom to speak and raise our voice against unjustice it is not democracy. Poor persons are killed and supressed by rich community this is not democracy.
Thanks brother nice talking to you we are done.
regards,
Rajnish Doi.

Hi Rajnish,
Our country was enslaved for 1000 years. If you go through the history, it is the people who were either traitors or who collaborated with the enemies of the nation are enjoying the benefits.
The Gujjars which were described as the highest caste of India by Persion scholars sacrificed their life and kingdoms. The Namadic Gujjars spread from Dehradun Hills to Himachal Pradesh, to Kashmir to Afghanistan were part of the Gujjars armies of Gujjars Pratihars Emperors who ruled the entire undivided India from South to north up to Kabul and up to Dhaka in the east.

It was during the Mughal empire when the Gujjars were forced to farming and in 1857 when the Gujjars revolted against the British Empire. That was also the time when patriots were punished and the traitors were rewarded.

For Example see the Maratha Empire: It was founded by Shivaji Bhonsla, which is a gotra among the Gujjars. His Senapati Pratap rao Gujjar defeated the Aurangjeb army at Salher. The First Nave Chief of Maratha army was Sidhoji Gujar. Now you trace the ancestors of these great warriors. The Sons of pratap rao were converted to Muslims.
Now take the example of Scindias. As per Acharaya Chatursen Shashtri, t First Scindia was hired by Balaji Rao Peshwa to take care of his shoes. It is said that he displayed examplary faithfulness protecting the shoes while the Balaji Rao Peshwa went for his nightlife enjoyment. This first great Maratha of Scindia clan was the father of Mahadji scindia.

See the difference:
The the descendents of the protectors of shoes is called maharani today and the protectors of the country are killed by the police while demontrating peacefully.

Now the only solutions in India to keep everybody at par to give the representations in Politics and Government jobs of each and every caste based on their numerical strenghth for atleast 25 years and see the difference again. There in no need for reservation for anybody.


So

[Rajnish Doi]

So
no reservation for anyone how is that going to happen?
It will never happen unless every one fight for it.

You know why MEENAs MLA are more in govt. because 15% seats are reserved for ST and only MEENAs are taking advantage of it. Gurjars will never be in power unless they fight for it.

Brothers the way I look at it, is a practical approach to change reservation system.
My near by MEENA village which is less populated than GURJARS is having 4 IAS, Plenty of DOCTORS and Engineers whereas in my village we are few Engineers most of other brothers are in Village or ARMY. Why this discrimination? MEENAs are not poor.

This is just an example there are SC casts also which are more stronger than other communities.
Guys this is the time to fight till the end I can see my community growing and my brothers getting good positions.
regards,
Rajnish Doi.

[AP Singh]

Hi Rajnish,
There is communication gap. To bring evereybody at par the Government should make sure each and every ethnic group should be given representaion in Government jobs and Politics based on their numerical strenghth for atleast next 25 years and after that there will be no need for any reservation. That will help the Communities like the Gujjars to make up for the time lost during Mughals and the British regime.
Since our country was enslaved for 1000 years there are certain groups who enjoyed collabotaing with these foreign regimes whereas others like Gujjars stayed away.
Now after independence these left out groups are finding themselves at the disadvange because there is no representative from them in Goverment.
Take the present case where Meenas are in big numbers in the Government and in Government jobs. So many Gujjars were killed by the Police in rajasthan and at the same time the Gujjar agitation is being branded as voilent and the gujjars are being punished everywhere.

[Rajnish Doi]

Dear Mr. A P Singh,

I am agreed with your point it is precisely more deep solution of the problem and I appreciate your indepth solution of the problem. Your point is valid as well as Pankaj point is also valid on proverty basis reservations.
If I have to make a point as you made Mr. AP Singh: NO RESERVATION FOR ANYONE. this is my point but it is not possible with our system like your raised point.

What I am trying to say is, your points will not be considered by mass and politician will exploit castism.

Now at this point our brothers are on road for ST status whatever they understand from it but if outcome is in favour of us then definetly it will help Country as a whole.

If today you want to make your points to the general community, it is not possible to make them understand and even you will not come out of your house for protesting.

This is the great chance of showing to the world that we have been exploited by govt and various other communities and we want our rights back.

Look JATs have been eying for OBC without feeling downgraded and any agitation they got it why because they are political strong. Tommorow I would not be surprised if Brahmins get ST/OBC because they are also powerfull.

We guys are straight and take every thing from heart please try to see what are we going to achieve after we get ST.

Politicians, Media and other biased community people want to break our unity by prooving what we did was wrong. But was there any option left with us, we have been demanding and protesting for this from years and we dont have powerfull politicians who can take our request further.
GURJARS get unit and get this ST status otherwise you can see our growth has been negative from so many years and it will go further down.
regards,
Rajnish Doi.

[AP Singh]

Hi Rajnish,
I am not against reservation since the purpose of it is to provide relief to the communities who were left out to join the mainstream for whatever reasons. The Gujjars were left uneducated since they moved to Jungles during Mughal regime to save the honours of their elders and females.
After the first war of Independence in 1857 they were severely punished by the British regime for their revolt and thousands of Gujjars were hanged all over the places.

In Delhi there is a village named Fatehpur inhabited by Gujjar Tanwars and it is said not a single Gujjar male of more than 12 years of age was left alive and everybody was hanged. There are similar stories of many villages. There are similar stories of thousands of Gujjar villages in and around Delhi. That was the time we became educationally backwards.

The communities who oppose the reservation System today are those who are in a better positions not because they are superior to others but because of other historical reasons as well like the revolt of 1857. Today they did not want to loose their positions like Meenas. These meenas also are against the reservation but only for Gujjars and that too in ST category. This is strange since they are enjoying the fruits of reservations and at the same tome are also against it but for others.

[Pankaj Kohli]

Dear Friends

First of all we are not comparing ourself with bihari's or jats. We are much superior than those people. In delhi, its a sort of notion that bihari students are most hardworking and jats are progressing very fast. So please dont take any other meaning.
Reservation is required in Rajasthan or not, that is an issue which gurjars of rajasthan know better. And as mazhar bhai said this demand has already been made. Reservation milega nahi milega, time will tell. Par ye koi aisee cheez nahi hai jo chheen lene se mil jayegi. Sadko par aane se kisi ko reservation nahi milta. Strong political lobbying is must. Hamare leaders me na to itna tej dimaag hai naa hee unme guts hai. Otherwise itne logo ko bevajah jaan nahi deni padti. Kya rajasthan me dusree communities ko is tarah reservation mila thaa. Un communities ke neta bahut hee chalaak aur shaatir dimaag wale hai.
Hame chaalaki aur samajhdari se apna hak paana hoga na kee sadko par keemti khoon baha kar. Hamare nalayak netao ka proof hum rajasthan me dekh chuke hai. Pure nation se koi bhi ELECTED gurjar neta TV yaa newspaper me openly nahi aaya. Rajasthan me do MLA dismiss kar diye gaye baaki abhi bhi party me hai. Vo resign kyon nahi dedete. Pressure isee tarah create hota hai. Col. Bainsla nahi jaante kee Vasundhra raje ne unhe jutha aasvasan diya hai aur reservation paane kee process kyaa hai.

Aur dosto koi chamatkaar nahi hoga, na hamare neta badlege, na system change hoga. Apni ladai hame root level par khud ladni hogi. Har gurjar ko society me apni jagah banaa kar, ek dusre ka haath pakadkar aage badhna hoga.
Moreover, political alienation is must. That helps make us more loud and stronger.

pls comment

regards

[Pankaj Kohli]

Neta word in above post implies those who are elected and have power to do something.

[ankurbhati]

OK MR. RAJNISH DOI

First of all i think you have never stepped out of Rajasthan....go outside rajasthan towards delhi and up....u'll find out that most of the ias, ips etc. govt officers are biharis...and the reason why bihar is a backward state is because all of its cream is outside either as govt officers or in foreign countries as engineers....rajnish brother so first of all u need to gain some knowledge and then speak on these issues....And yes India is a democracy...you and I have full freedom to speak about our views PEACEFULLY....not by burning police stations and blocking national highways....and if you think the govt doesnt listen to peaceful protests then violent protests have made the image of the gurjars even worse....and definitely Col. Baisla is the pride of our community...but i am still in favor of reservation only for the NEEDY no matter what the caste or creed....

[AP Singh]

In a country like India it very difficult to do justice with everybody. Somebody will be left out and others will pretend that are left out. In Rajasthan the condition of Gujjars in some of the districts are very bad. Similar is the condition of meenas in those districts. So the Government should include the Gujjars and Meenas in ST category in those particular districts.
The meenas who are so powerful that they can burn Gujjars alive, who are supposed to be a very tough community ( it is based on TOI report), how the reservation for them can be justified? it should be immediately stopped

"Now the Meenas are stepped in to this fight so a district-wise, bit by bit Comparison of Gujjars with Meenas should be done by the Government and as is evident from many reports, the meenas will cetainly will be found in better condition than the Gujjars. In that case the Supreme court of India should ensure the justice by either including the Gujjars in the ST category or by removing the Meenas from the ST list otherwise the people of the country will loose faith even in Supreme Court of India that they are also targetting people like Gujjars selectively, like it was done in British regime."

On needy basis it is very difficult to identify the people. There are so many beggers on delhi roads, pretending that they are needy, but the fact is they belong to a business group of the annula tirnover of more than Rs.200 crore. Getting the false certificates of need is very difficult to get in Delhi but very easy in Bihar. In that case also the Bihar will fare better.

[avinash1]

Hi all !

I have been reading lot of comments on reservation issue on this post. I feel it is futile to discuss if reservation policy as such is good or bad or how other communities got benefitted and if merit should be the only consideration.

Let us see the facts and ground situation. I have following thoughts on this:

1. Reservation policy is prevailing in all states and all over India. We as a small community cannot abolish or eliminate it. So let us not waste our time arguing if it is good or bad or how it has helped others.
2. Yes it do help in uplifting the communities to some extent. I know we all here on this forum have achieved on merit and are winners. But think of thousands of our brothers who are istill n villages and rural areas without proximity to schools/colleges and basic education.
3. Reservation based on economic policy ? I dunt accept this criteria also. I have many relatives who are rich landlords in villages but uneducated. Reason: Proximity to schools and colleges in rural areas and qualitity of education. Will it not help a son of this landlord to get a admission in a govenment engineering college say at 50 % marks. Will it not provide him an opportunity to improve his quality of education. In normal circumstances without resevation he may not get the admission even if he score say 60 or 70 % marks. Is it his fault that he scored 50 % marks because of lack of basic amenities and quality of education in his village. Should he not get any benefits because he belong to a rich but uneducated farmer. Friends...you think and decide??
4. I agree many of us or our fathers have come a hard way and with flying colors and without reservation. But everyone cannot be great and these are one in thousands kind of examples. Think of our people in villages and rural areas. The reason most of us belong to rural areas and villages is that we were basically farmers by profession and all of us are aware on the conditions or plights of farmers these days.
5. Without getting into politics or region can we not just simply say " We support our brothers in rajasthan" becos they are one of us. We need not tell them if reservation is right or wrong, or it is a political issue or whatever,
6. It is as simple as our brothers in rajasthan feel they need the reservation and fine, we all support it unconditionally.
7. I was surprised that as a community we still are not united and feel that a strong support should have been displayed from gujjar organisation all over India.
8. Let us not forget our base: farmers by professions residets in villages and rural areas and imagine the problems of our brothers and how we can help them to achieve good education through better services and facilities. We cannot open good schools and colleges in these areas overnight. Reservation will certainly help.

Cheers !

avinash