Rajasthan Issue

[Rajnish Doi]

Hello Avinash,

Very Good thinking I appreciate it and appeal to every brother of our community to not get biased by media, politicians and other communities.
This is the time to come together.
Once we are together we can sit and talk on where I or you have been outside Rajasthan or India
regards,
Rajnish Doi.

[avinash1]

Hi all,

thanks rajnish.

I think we are still not getting into basic problems being faced by our community memebers all over India. Many comments and observations cited were local or region based.

I personally feel that as a community probably gujjars have gone through the most ups- and downs and rigors throughout the history and have always been battling hard for survival. That is precise the reason that we are split in so many groups, regions, castes, subcastes and have no common link or maintaining a uniform identity.

Gujjars in Maharshtra were added in OBC category very recently. Most of my fellow gujjar brothers then were to compete openly with all other castes and have grown up purely on merits. Looking back at situation, I feel i was lucky that I got highly educated parents staying in urban area and hence they provided me with best facilities and education quality. This helped me to score good marks, withstand the competition on my merits and got admission in a reputed engineering college without the support of any reservation. But going one generation back, my parents though highly educated and coming from affluent families had to really struggle because of lack of proper education facilities in rural areas. They competed with best without any reservation policy and came out with flying colors and are well known academicians. If I still go one geneartion back or few generations back then the fight for survival was probably still difficult with wars and all the chaos sarrounding our community. Such examples are very few.

But not everyone can achieve this without proper support and infrastructure, just like there can be only one newton, einstein or Vinci. So what about the people who could not get the education facilities and quality and are still living in rural areas. For example few decades back it was thought that only poor peoples children needs education and rich farmers children do not. And this is true because I have myself seen this ground reality in rural areas. How can we bring them on par with rest of us in education.

Again all this depend on the environment your are surviving, the economic and political growth of that area and many other factors. People who live and survive in those conditions can only know better as to what they need to improve their status. People in Rajasthan though late probably now realised that they need the support of reservation to uplift them educationally and as well as economically. This realisation might have come from political status, caste equations and social status, education facilities available and other social reasons.

Whatever could be the reasons, but yes it will help them to grow....educationally as well as socially.

We should support all our Rajasthan brothers in their struggle notwithstanding any regional, caste and political barriers.

Let a gujjar kid from that region get the equal opportunity to study in best colleges and work in best institutes.

In fact this could have been turned out into Great Gujjars Movement to unite all of us from different parts of the country.

Whom should we blame....ourselves...our self confined or region confined leaders or mandals or associations ??

I feel we need to work more on this and I believe that we the educated people on this forum can only do that.

luv & cheers !

avinash

[mazhar gujjar]

OH DEAR AVINASH,

THANK U VERY MUCH,

you have written what i want to explain my gujjar brothers.

but i could not do so bcoz i dont know much english also hindi.

my basic languages r punjabi,gojri and urdu.

ankur and pankaj bhai ur ideas r also right but in the countries

where everyone,every city and town has same basic facilities.

where there is no castism.

how can be the same struggle,hardworking and acheivment of

an urban gujjar or person of chandigadh and delhi or mumbai

and a gujjar or person not only a village of rajasthan but also a

village near chandigadh or delhi or mumbai.

lekin joo bhee kuch hoo hamarey ideas chahey different hoon.

hamein united rehna chaheay.aur baatoon kee bajaey kuch karna chaheay.

main unn gujjaroon sey jinhoon ney protest kia iss leay khush hoon key unhoon ney joo kaha woo kia.

unkey way of protest sey ikhtelaf kia ja sakta hai magar woo

batein karney waley nahin kut marney waley log hain.

mazhar gujjar

[Pankaj Kohli]

Hi friends
1. Do all the gurjars are poor and do not have access to good education.

2. Do all Govt officers are selected because either they have reservation or they had a strong family background.

3. Do we have few govt officers selected every year, even though we have OBC status and ST status ( 2 states) since years.


Think how many gurjars around you cannot send their children to schools. Majority of gurjars belong to lower middle class and middle class families. And this is the segment of society which contributes almost all civil servants in this country. Amazingly, we donot contribute even a single. A little honest introspection will reveal lack of zeal inside us.

What about private sector, there is no reservation. Who stops?

It seems as soon as we get ST reservation, we will be flooded with educated people and Govt officers. It looks like a joke seeing our previous track record. Will reservation bring the zeal to progress ? Instead of being having a baseless feel of being a deprived community, why dont we talk and act royal.

A self styled leader from community make a arakshan samiti and put lot of his energy to convince poor people from community to fight for something which they will never get without strong political will. And the man knows all the facts. Even then we all blindly support him. Why?

regards

[Pankaj Kohli]

Dear mazhar bhai

A interesting fact which was once published by India Today magazine in their survey was that MAJOR number of beaurocrats and top level managers belongs to either small villages or towns and not from well facilitated cities like CHANDIGARH, DELHI or MUMBAI.

regards

[mazhar gujjar]

DEAR PANKAJ BHAI,

the same position is in pakistan. our most burocrates ,businessmen politicians r from rural areas.
i dont know about india but in pakistan 70% population of pakistan living in rural areas.
i think the same position will be in india.
pankaj bhai agar koi bhee gov sub tribes or units koo aik jaisa treat nahin kartee tu phir ubaal aaey gaa.
reservation yaa tu hoona hee nahin chaheay thaa.agar hai tu phir hur uss group key leay hoona chaheay joo merit pur aata hoo.
hamarey pakistan key frontier province mein gujjar population 45% hai lekin uss area koo sirf pushtoon area bola jaata hai.
pushtoon uss area mein sirf 20% hain.lekin angrejoon kaa saath deney kee waja sey yaa kissee bhee aur waja sey upper authorities sub unkey pass hain. aur universities aur colleges mein seats res bhee unkey pass hai. frontier con mein qouta bhee unkey leay hai.
province kaa name woo change karna chahtey hain .aur change kur key rakhna chahtey hain ,,, PUSHTOONISTAN,,,.
Unn logoon ney kabhee bahir kee dunya pur yey khulney nahin dia key yehan gujjar bhee hain.
abb jub gujjaroon mein awareness aaey hai tu unnkoo equal nahin magar kuch rights dena chahtey hain magar majboory sey.
jub gujjar kehtey hain key province kaa name gujjaristan hoona chaheay tu kehtey hain key gujjar bhee pukhtoon hee tu hain.
lekin hamesha unkoo apney sey ghatia hee kehtey rahey.

pankaj bhai mera experience yey hai key gujjaroon mein bohat potential hai.
gujjar dosroon sey jiada powerfull, intelligent,,hardworker,
emotional ,patriot hain.
magar aik kamjoori key seedhey hain aur united nahin hain.
gujjar agar peechey reh gaey hain tu uss mein inkaa fault sirf qurbani hai aur ab uskoo admit karney key leay koi tayyar nahin.
indo pak mein history hai tu gujjar qaum kee. magar woo sub dosroon kee jhooli mein daal dee gaee.

aur yey world kaa rule bun chukaa hai key joo peechey reh jaey uskoo aur peechey daal doo.
justice nahin hai iss world mein.

allama iqbal kaa kehnaa hai key

,, hai jurm e zaifee kee sazaa marge mafajaat,,,

matlab iss kaa yey hai key kamjooree see saja iss dunia mei sirf death hai,

lekin yey gujjar qaum ka sarmaya hai key 1000 years sey maar khaney key bawajood jinda hai.

iskey saath kee qaumein kub kee mur chukein.

pankaj bhai jhagdey aur debates chodo koi aisa program banao joo aapkey mind key mutabiq hoo.
jiss sey iss roshan qaum kaa future roshan hoo jaey.
iskoo sirf leadership aur programm kee jaroorat hai.

mujhey ankur bhai sey sirf yey ikhtelaf hai key yey qaum lazy hai.

mazhar gujjar

[mazhar gujjar]

DEAR PANKAJ BHAI,

the same position is in pakistan. our most burocrates ,businessmen politicians r from rural areas.
i dont know about india but in pakistan 70% population of pakistan living in rural areas.
i think the same position will be in india.
pankaj bhai agar koi bhee gov sub tribes or units koo aik jaisa treat nahin kartee tu phir ubaal aaey gaa.
reservation yaa tu hoona hee nahin chaheay thaa.agar hai tu phir hur uss group key leay hoona chaheay joo merit pur aata hoo.
hamarey pakistan key frontier province mein gujjar population 45% hai lekin uss area koo sirf pushtoon area bola jaata hai.
pushtoon uss area mein sirf 20% hain.lekin angrejoon kaa saath deney kee waja sey yaa kissee bhee aur waja sey upper authorities sub unkey pass hain. aur universities aur colleges mein seats res bhee unkey pass hai. frontier constablery mein qouta bhee unkey leay hai.
tu kia yey sub dekh kur hamarey youngster mein complex aur jealousy nahin aaey gee.kub tuk bardasht karein gey iss naa insaafee koo.
province kaa name woo change karna chahtey hain .aur change kur key rakhna chahtey hain ,,, PUSHTOONISTAN,,,.
Unn logoon ney kabhee bahir kee dunya pur yey khulney nahin dia key yehan gujjar bhee hain.
abb jub gujjaroon mein awareness aaey hai tu unnkoo equal nahin magar kuch rights dena chahtey hain magar majboory sey.
jub gujjar kehtey hain key province kaa name gujjaristan hoona chaheay tu kehtey hain key gujjar bhee pukhtoon hee tu hain.
lekin hamesha unkoo apney sey ghatia hee kehtey rahey.

pankaj bhai mera experience yey hai key gujjaroon mein bohat potential hai.
gujjar dosroon sey jiada powerfull, intelligent,,hardworker,
emotional ,patriot hain.
magar aik kamjoori key seedhey hain aur united nahin hain.
gujjar agar peechey reh gaey hain tu uss mein inkaa fault sirf qurbani hai aur ab uskoo admit karney key leay koi tayyar nahin.
indo pak mein history hai tu gujjar qaum kee. magar woo sub dosroon kee jhooli mein daal dee gaee.

aur yey world kaa rule bun chukaa hai key joo peechey reh jaey uskoo aur peechey daal doo.
justice nahin hai iss world mein.

allama iqbal kaa kehnaa hai key

,, hai jurm e zaifee kee sazaa marge mafajaat,,,

matlab iss kaa yey hai key kamjooree see saja iss dunia mei sirf death hai,

lekin yey gujjar qaum ka sarmaya hai key 1000 years sey maar khaney key bawajood jinda hai.

iskey saath kee qaumein kub kee mur chukein.

pankaj bhai jhagdey aur debates chodo koi aisa program banao joo aapkey mind key mutabiq hoo.
jiss sey iss roshan qaum kaa future roshan hoo jaey.
iskoo sirf leadership aur programm kee jaroorat hai.

mujhey ankur bhai sey sirf yey ikhtelaf hai key yey qaum lazy hai.

mazhar gujjar

[kunwar]

A.P. Singh ji, Pankaj Bhai Ram Ram ... Mazhar bhai salaam .. baki sab ko yathawat pranaam (Regards as applicable).
I hope you all remeber me. I was busy with this same issue but some where at a different level.
I read some posts and would love to comment on a few :
FOR ANKUR BHATI : Ram-ram bhai. I suppose you watched news today. Soccer fans in Argentina, clased today and the clash was absolutely violent. Police tried tear-gas, lathi-charge and then opened fire at the mob. Mind it rubber bullets and every thing was under control. Ask yourself a question, Why did Raj. Police specially that Meena SSP resorted to firing on the first place. Now I ask you one question, Were you there at the scene? If you were not please refrain from making false statements.
You commented somewhere about non-existence of communities in US. You are absolutely wrong. What would you call Hispanics, Blacks etc. Also please don't call US the most prosperous nation. We are into existence for almost 5000 years. Now I test your G.K. when was Americas discovered ? What were they at the time of discovery?
Brother let us pool-in our wisdom for the betterment of this society. We take pride in being a part of this community. We had a golden past, we are struggling for the present and we will excell in future.
India is not a Soverign, Social & democratic country. We better call it United States of India.
Administrations are Autocratic not Democratic. We wish to be soverign, social and democratic. But its a cyclic process. For all these to happen we need good % to be educated so that they may also come to know about the value of vote. Till votes are being bought for a pouch of country liquor, a saree, Rs. 100 note you cannot call it Democracy.


Historical Perspective : Its has been discussed time and again. I would only like to bring oit to the notice that though Meenas were/are brave and were warriors in the past but they admitted to rule of rulers of Jaipur and thus were blessed with the ST status as per Kelkar committee. On the contrary Gujjars of Rajasthan didn't admit to the rule and thus were deprived of the status even though Kelkar recommended it for Gujjars as well. Gujjars are treated this way time and again. First our own half-bloods shook hands with moughals and back stabbed us for petty riyasats. Prompted Moughals for attrocities against us but we never bent. In due time they made allies with Britishers and again sthingy-fed them against gujjars. We again faced worse attrocities and even declared Notified Criminal Tribe (So were Meenas). As I wrote Meenas were done just post-independence on the recommendations of Rulers Of Jaipur. We were not given our due share and termed De-Notified Tribe. What has apex court of India git to say about this ?

1981: Politicians showed sympathy to extract some votes out of us by luring Gujjars of Rajastha with a "ST- Onsideration" bait. But as it was a bait, no one cares to perform last rights of a bait after the big cat is hunted. Same happened to Gujjars of Rajasthan. We were lacking a leader, we were lacking unity and zest.

2007 : We have a leader Col. Bainsala, we are united and we have the zest. So brothers we will achieve what we are eyeing. We lost lives but that is in our blood, this is our tradition and we are known for this.

We are waiting for the committee report to come. If we are denied our right we will fight for it. We will put forward some questions to Govt. of India and Apex Court.
- How many people were arrested during the agitations against Mandal Commission.
- When will Apex court declare that agitation as National Shame.
- Will Mahatama Gandhi be prosecuted under same IPCs as Col. Bainsala is? He also instigated the satyagrah movement that turned violent and a chowki was vandalised and burnt, 5 policemen were killed.
-What actions are taken against the Police Officer who ordered firing?
- Under RTI, we will ask. % of Meenas getting selected in services and % of rest of STs.

What are we doing in addition to writing:
I formulated a community on orkut ( www.orkut.com/Community.aspx?cmm=33707499 ).
We are planning to bring out a different face of agitation if required this time. In this protest we showed how power ful and united we are. This time we will show how united and dedicated to our community we are. We will not hold populae/public-life at ransom, we will ask questions. We will create awareness among all (not only gujjars) of what we are being denied and deprived of.
We are also planning to get this community of ours registered and shape it up like an NGO but only for betterment of Gujjars. We will raise funds and sponsor education to meritorous kids, will sponsor for coachings for meritorous gujjars for engg/medical/civil-services. All this will take time but we have put the step forward and there is no looking back. I extend an offer to all of you. Anyone interested may please visit the community. There is a strict policy for application for membership, please visit the community for details. Also we are formulating a task force to get the content regarding Gujjars amended on Wiki.
If anyone of you have any ideas to share, some suggestions to make, criticise us for anything you are most welcome.

Always Best Regards
Kunwar Prashant Singh Gujjar

[avinash1]

Hi all,

Thanks Majaharbhai for the compliments.
I also appreciate and agree with the views of Kunwar Pratapsingh

I can understand your thinking and feel your pain as you are aware of the ground situation and reality. I have few thoughts to share
1. Right now there is no point in discussing if reservation policy is right or wrong. The fact is we as a community being very small and not yet united lack the political, economic and social will as well as power and strength to carry out any agitation to completely eliminate or abolish the reservation policy in India. Let us accept this fact.
2. Whatever I know of our community, I am sure that 70 % still lives in rural areas.
3. Since resevation is going to be there and other castes are getting the benefits consider the following situation. A gujjar boy from some rural areas in rajasthan getting his primary education in the village school that lack proper education facilities and also qualified teachers. Fine he is a merit student, very clever on his own capabilities he is getting good marks. He appears for competitive exam after 12 for engineering and medical courses. He scores good marks say 90 %. He applies for the best college. Only one Seat is available and there are 3 students having same marks, one from affluent jat community, born and braught up in urban area say Chandigad with educated parents and all the facilities, and 2nd from a Meena community or any other community under resevation. Who do you feel deserve the admission for this last seat. I believe answer is unanimous. The gujjar boy will have to settle for 2nd best college since he is not in resevation category.
Same situation prevails after he completes his graduation and applies for MBA. He will have to compete againts all these students and will always get the last chance since the other communities enjoy the preveleges of reservation.
3. What our people in Rajasthan is demanding is equality.
4. Let us not critisise these people and leaders as uneducated or by calling them names. Leadership is achieved and has nothing to do with education or qualifications or money. I am sure that if we actually go and talk to these common uneducated people and try to let them understand our views and at the same time understand their views also, we will probably come out much more informed and educated.
5. Let us not insult any of our leaders or brothers based on region or education or whatever criteria. If we cannot respect the common and less preveleged members in our society then we cannot really understand the problem of our society nor we will be able to umprove the life of our people.
6. We cannot improve the condition of our society unless we understand and uplift the condition of these unpreveleged class.

In short let us support the best option available to us under the prevailing socio-economic condition and support our brothers in rajasthan to the best of our abilities.

luv and cheers!

avinash

[Rajesh Jindher]

Hello All Gr8 gurjars

I think Gurjars are trying to come into ST category its right move dear. Coz we know we dont have many of IAS, IPS or any other Indian services so if we come forward then ST category can be beneficial for us. You all know very well there are only few casts in ST category and there is most chances to select in the ST category in any field then other categories. So if govt. consider us in ST category it would be golden chance for our brothers specially who want to go in IAS, IPS or IFS side it will surely support them.

So dear I am in favour of ST category for example if there are 10 posts of IAS and two reserve for ST there is much chance for our inteligent brother, on the other side 90% population of other casts then how can we across them. Everybody know we are too much behind then others thats why ST category can play major role in gurjars future.

Regards

Rajesh Choudhary

[Rajesh Jindher]

And mazhar bhai please ba a part of this community as a member not as a guest. This is my personal request to you.

regards

Rajesh Choudhary

[AP Singh]

The Gujjar also raise a demand to the Government and bring the same to the kind notice of Apex court to return the land confiscated from Gujjars after the first war of Independence: That will be the real justice if sureme court is

See the report:

By IE
Thursday June 28, 01:29 AM
With the Gurjjar Mahapanchayat meeting last Sunday threatening to launch another stir, it may be useful to take a closer look at a community that has influenced the course of Indian history at various points of time. The Gurjjars played a major role in the 1857 struggle for independence. Historian Suraj Bhan Bharadwaj, who has done extensive research on the Gurjjars, mentions that those residing in several villages on the Grand Trunk Road in what is now Haryana, had blocked the road to Delhi, thus preventing the British from sending reinforcements when the city fell to the rebels. Together with this, Gurjjar villagers in the Panipat region refused to pay land revenue, thus forcing the British to ask the raja of Jind to send his troops to quell them.
But why is such a widespread community backward? One of the major contributing factors seems to have been British retribution in the aftermath of 1857. Gurjjars had their lands confiscated, and they themselves were declared a "criminal tribe". This retribution resulted in their economic condition worsening, at least in northern India, which may have been a factor in forcing many to move out of northern India. It was only after independence that the stigma of being a criminal tribe was at least officially removed when Gurjjars were de-notified.

Who is eligible to represent this community is of course an interesting question, given its fragmented nature. But if the recent agitation had indeed highlighted the futility of caste-based reservations, and the need to evolve a fair and rational system of providing equal opportunity for all sections of society, the Gurjjars would have done as important a service to the nation in 2007 as they did in 1857.

[drhiteshkasana]

well gurjars have been marginalised in the developmental processes since 1857 and to undo the injustice they should be provided oppurtunities be it thru reservation or by providing infrastructure for education


we also need to spread the knowledge about our great past ,firstly to dispell the inferiorty complex which have been instilled in us by so many years of oppression and secondly to give us a fresh strength to move ahead from present situation

[kunwar]

Hi Dr. Hitesh Kasana,
We are working on this topic as well. I know of a few good ppl in our community viz. Mr. A.P. Singh, Ashok Harsana and I ask for others who have good dependable material regarding Gujjar History to come forward and help us.
Our first target is wiki on Gurjars. We wish to get it amended. For the same we need facts and references. We are working on that. Past this exercise we have plans to arrange the History in a better fashion with references and evidences. Get a booklet printed (we will try to keep the cost as low as possible) make some CDs (data), will raise funds for the same and distribute it to as far extent as possible.
Quite a lot of material is available on net but net is not so wide spread. We are in the process to chalk out the plans, afterwards we will get rolling.
Just keep the fire burning. This is the time, we can make a difference to the society. If we don't do anything this time .. I have notions we will become endangered species and will loose the battle for ever.

Regards
KPS Gujjar

[mazhar gujjar]

dear kunwar parshant,

i was waiting for u from a long time.you r one of those who r in
favour of my thinkings. u r a state forward man.
but where were u .the work should be continuous.
aik dosrey sey touch rehna,miltey rehna ,batein karna, discussion kurna yey bhee aik bohat bada work hai.

kunwar bhai research kabhee khatam tu nahin hotee.
magar ,,RANA ALI HASSAN CHOHAN,, KEE likhee hoee history key baad gujjar history koo kisee complex mein nahin rehna chaheay.

unkee research kaa koi bhee dosra tribe jawab nahin dey saka.
everything with references.

yey baat bilkul sahee hai key wiki aur net pur dosrey encyclopedias pur gujjar history refresh karney kee jaroorat hai.

hamaree apnee gurjarsonline pur bhee gurjar origin key barey mein statement koo refresh karney kee jaroorat hai.

gujjaroon koo foreigners proof kana aik bohat badee sazish thee.jiskoo bohat sey gujjaroon ney accept bhee kia
magar
yey baat ab proof hoo chukee hai key gujjar foreigners nahin.
original inhabitants of india.

main afghanistan aur china gaya kahin bhee gujjaroon kee language unn deshoon kee language sey nahin miltee.
russia key gujjar bhee ,haryanvi aur rajisthani sey miltee language gujjari boltey hain.

ramchandar jee aur lakshman aik bohat badee personalities hain world kee.gujjaroon kee history inn great personalities sey miltee hain.
gujjaroon koo foreigner proof kur key historians ney gujjaroon kee historical strength koo kum karney kee koshish kee.

jisey gujjaroon koo ab refuse kur dena chaheay.
yey baat sahee hai key gujjar world key bohat sey countries mein hain.magar yey sub india sey bahir gaey.na key bahir sey india.

mazhar gujjar
lahore pakistan